On Tuesday 8th December, at Public Inquiry, Mr. Adrian Pargeter, the Director at Kingspan Insulation UK, discussed a particularly illuminating message chain in which Arron Chalmers’ comments in the message that “all we do is lie here”.

Video and Transcript of the Inquiry below

Q. Mr Pargeter, can we now please go to {KIN0007445}. I’m hoping what appears is a redacted version of this document, and I only need to look at the first part of it. This is an instant messenger chat between two of your technical team, Peter Moss and Arron Chalmers. It’s linked, as you can see from the very top of the page, to an email from Peter Moss to himself on 9 November 2016, so this is during your tenure as head of marketing and technical, “Conversation with Peter Moss”.
It’s quite difficult to read, so bear with me, but it says at 16.30, Peter Moss, “Maaaaaate”. Then underneath that he says: “Has Class 0 fire performance throughout the entire product in accordance with BS 476′ which alternatives can we propose?”
Arron Chalmers comes back: “Class 0 board. “K15 or K10.”
Peter Moss: “And k110?”
Arron Chalmers: “Well yeah the solstice alternatives. “Not K5 anymore tho.”
Peter Moss: “Cool cool thank GOD I got it right.”
Arron Chalmers: “All in the facing my friend.” And there is a smiley face.
Peter Moss: “Yeah he wanted to use K7 and I said only K10/K110/K15 are comparable whereas K7 has a class 1 surface spread of flame but not a ‘class 0’ product.”
Arron Chalmers: “Doesn’t actually get class 0 when we test the whole product tho. “LOL!”
Peter Moss: “WHAT. “We lied? “Honest opinion now. “dw.”
Arron Chalmers: “Yeahhhh. “Tested K15 as a whole – got class 1. “Wheyy. “lol.”
Peter Moss: “Whey. “Shit product. “Scrap it.”
Arron Chalmers: “But England/Wales is worded in such a way that it ‘implies’ the facing can give you class 0. “Scotland is written better, therefore our product is not class 0 in Scotland haha “But dont tell anyone that.”
Peter Moss: “What like the literature “Fire Performance Kingspan Kooltherm K110 is Class 0. “Ha ha. “Fire Performance. “Kingspan Kooltherm K110 is Class 0. “Woops “Fire Performance “Kingspan Kooltherm K15 is Class 0 (non-combustible).”
Arron Chalmers: “What K15 doesnt say that?!”
Peter Moss, over the page {KIN00007445/2}: “WHEY “Look who knows their shit.”
Arron Chalmers: “Yeah all lies mate.”
Peter Moss: “Just tickling your balls mate.”
Arron Chalmers: “So is class 1 on K7/k12/8 “Dan got class 2 “I’m retesting to hope.”
Peter Moss: “Fire Performance “Kingspan Kooltherm K7 Pitched Roof Board is Class 1.”
Arron Chalmers: “BALLS! “Alls we do is lie in here.”
Peter Moss: “Aye.”
And then it goes on, and then it turns into a personal question which thankfully has been redacted. Now, I’ve shown you that because, although it’s not particularly literary, it’s certainly clear as to what it’s saying. Is this what your own technical team thought of the bit of a cheat about how to present class 0 on K15?
A. I mean, reading that, it’s certainly not the view that they espouse externally, and it’s very disappointing to read that from my perspective.
Q. But when he says on page 2, does Mr Chalmers, “All we do is lie in here” — I mean, these messages were clearly never meant to see the light of day, but when he says that, it was, I have to put to you, a true, if pithy, summary of Kingspan’s culture at the time.
A. I don’t believe that’s true at all.
Q. That was what was happening in your technical department under your tutelage?
A. No, I disagree with that absolutely.
Q. You had been in charge of this department for some two and a half years by this point; how do you account for this attitude to occur? And it’s not just the attitude or the tone of the discussions; people I think would find that less shocking than actually what they were talking about. How can you explain that?
A. I can’t, because that’s not a culture that I endorse or foster at all.
Q. Do you accept that a culture of lying about the fire safety of products is particularly serious, because you’re taking risks with people’s lives and the safety of their homes?
A. Yeah, I don’t believe that we are lying. I think that they’ve … I can’t explain why they’re describing it as such in that way between the two of them.
Q. There is no major difference, is there, other than perhaps a difference in tone, between what they’re talking about and the “a bit of a cheat” email that Arron Chalmers sent to you, is there?
A. Oh, I think there is. I think this is a very different approach, if you like. It’s not the same as what they espouse externally.
Transcript citation: Day 84, 08/12/2020 – page 125, line 2 to page 130, line 7

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